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Author Topic: 1st Engine build!  (Read 1549 times)

krautwaggen

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1st Engine build!
« on: August 22, 2008, 03:10:23 PM »
I am building my first engine from the case up and could use some advice and opinion (can't we all?)

I dissassembled my Grenade last night and found that both heads were cracked between the valves in all 4 combustion chambers, and the valves themselves were completely white!

This I attribute to the previous owner in Arizona (who lived at a higher elevation) running the vehicle for way to long, timed for a lower elevation. The owner prior to him towed a bass boat with the truck, so this thing has been fully abused from the get go (not to mention the JB welded case)

Anyway, I have a set of FI heads from a 71-73 type 3 and the case as well (bored currently for 90.5s and drilled/tapped for full flow filter)

The parts I am considering reusing from the grenade are the pistons and cylinders (don't know what brand, but they have a casting mark with an S and a C on the underside.

Here are the specs of what I have that I think I would like to reuse:

Dual Dellorto 36
8 dowelled stock 69mm crank with what I believe to be standard journals
stock rods
Engle 100 Cam
Solid Rocker shafts (not sure what the ratio on the rockers are, but they're stock vw parts)
009 Distributor (not sure if I should change this out for Vac. advance being in a bus or a 010 or 019)
94mm P&Cs that I will have honed and re-ringed (they look like they're in decent shape, with no scoring on the cylinder walls)

The internals all appeared to be in decent shape. Bearings were all in great shape (the STD denoting standard size was still visible on the surface) Should I still have the crank and cam polished?

The Case has been line bored (only once). It is currently set up for 90.5s and the 94s I have don't look thick enough to entertain the idea of turning them down to fit the case opening.

The engine will be used in a daily driven single cab that pretty much needs to be bullet proof and will rarely see anything over 4000 rpms.

My questions are

1776 or 1914?
(budgetary issues here would be buying 90.5 p&c and possibly have too much carb vs having the case and heads opened up for 94s)

Are all of the parts listed previously suitable for an engine build of this sort?

Is headwork needed? Who does head work? Anyone in the area recommended? I would like to do a mild amount to maybe increase the flow of the heads and give me a bit more horse power.

I'm on a fairly tight budget, but I'm prepared to spend a few bucks on the things that I need most.

Thanks volks!
-Brian
Brian
68 scab
Maintenance chief for
78 Deluxe Westfalia
73 Standard Beetle

"If you're going to throw someone under the bus, let it be me. I love buses!"

turboblue

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Re: 1st Engine build!
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2008, 05:10:36 PM »
I am building my first engine from the case up and could use some advice and opinion (can't we all?)

I dissassembled my Grenade last night and found that both heads were cracked between the valves in all 4 combustion chambers, and the valves themselves were completely white!

This I attribute to the previous owner in Arizona (who lived at a higher elevation) running the vehicle for way to long, timed for a lower elevation. The owner prior to him towed a bass boat with the truck, so this thing has been fully abused from the get go (not to mention the JB welded case)

Anyway, I have a set of FI heads from a 71-73 type 3 You'll have to bore them for 94s if you go 1915 and the case as well (bored currently for 90.5s and drilled/tapped for full flow filter)  The parts I am considering reusing from the grenade are the pistons and cylinders (don't know what brand, but they have a casting mark with an S and a C on the underside.

Here are the specs of what I have that I think I would like to reuse:

Dual Dellorto 36 Good
8 dowelled stock 69mm crank with what I believe to be standard journals Doubt it's all standard, need to measure journals. All standard would measure 2.165 on mains and rods.stock rods
Engle 100 Cam Did you mark the lifters as to what cylinder and valve they were used on?
Solid Rocker shafts (not sure what the ratio on the rockers are, but they're stock vw parts) Solid shafts have a bolt in each end and not the clips/washers/wavy washers between the rockers and blocks. Has shims to space the rockers apart009 Distributor (not sure if I should change this out for Vac. advance being in a bus or a 010 or 019) 010 or 019 has a better advance curve. 009 can be made to work.94mm P&Cs that I will have honed and re-ringed (they look like they're in decent shape, with no scoring on the cylinder walls) Did you check the ring gap before installation? .004" per inch of cylinder bore.
The internals all appeared to be in decent shape. Bearings were all in great shape (the STD denoting standard size was still visible on the surface) You can't use STD bearings in an align bored case.I would not reuse bearings anyway. Should I still have the crank yes and cam polished never heard of that being done ?

The Case has been line bored (only once). It is currently set up for 90.5s and the 94s I have don't look thick enough to entertain the idea of turning them down to fit the case opening. You can have the 94s turned down to fit the 90.5 as you know.
The engine will be used in a daily driven single cab that pretty much needs to be bullet proof and will rarely see anything over 4000 rpms.

My questions are

1776 or 1914?
(budgetary issues here would be buying 90.5 p&c and possibly have too much carb vs having the case and heads opened up for 94s)
 Carb size should not be an issue. Your choice, mine would be a 1776. Are all of the parts listed previously suitable for an engine build of this sort?

Is headwork needed? Who does head work? Anyone in the area recommended? I would like to do a mild amount to maybe increase the flow of the heads and give me a bit more horse power.
Not absolutely necessary but a fluff and buff would certainly help things out.

I'm on a fairly tight budget, but I'm prepared to spend a few bucks on the things that I need most.

Thanks volks!
-Brian
 
 
Gary

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hot63vw

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Re: 1st Engine build!
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2008, 05:16:13 PM »
Which ever size engine you decide to go with be sure you set your compression up for the bus sounds like it ran pretty hot with the old engine. Did the fuel injection heads have smaller valves? Doug

Kafer_Mike

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Re: 1st Engine build!
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2008, 06:32:59 PM »
I'd spend a little extra to get a 69mm counterweighted crank. For the $$$ to have the current one shipped, cleaned, checked and polished you'll be close to the price of a DPR crank. Check with Gary...
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 09:57:54 PM by Kafer_Mike »
Kafer_Mike
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krautwaggen

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Re: 1st Engine build!
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2008, 07:54:32 PM »
The fuel injected heads currently have smaller valves (stock sizes) The cracked heads that were on the old engine had larger valves (although I don't know their dimension at this time).

I was thinking about going with a cw crank as well, but didn't know if it required it since this was going to be a lower rpm non-race motor. My old mofoco 1600 dp with cw crank ran quite smooth though, and I would think this is a good thing.
Brian
68 scab
Maintenance chief for
78 Deluxe Westfalia
73 Standard Beetle

"If you're going to throw someone under the bus, let it be me. I love buses!"

krautwaggen

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Re: 1st Engine build!
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2008, 08:01:45 PM »

8 dowelled stock 69mm crank with what I believe to be standard journals Doubt it's all standard, need to measure journals. All standard would measure 2.165 on mains and rods.stock rods I'll check these but I'm thinking cw crank might be a better choice
Engle 100 Cam Did you mark the lifters as to what cylinder and valve they were used on? sure did!
Solid Rocker shafts (not sure what the ratio on the rockers are, but they're stock vw parts) Solid shafts have a bolt in each end and not the clips/washers/wavy washers between the rockers and blocks. Has shims to space the rockers apart yep

009 Distributor (not sure if I should change this out for Vac. advance being in a bus or a 010 or 019) 010 or 019 has a better advance curve. 009 can be made to work.94mm P&Cs that I will have honed and re-ringed (they look like they're in decent shape, with no scoring on the cylinder walls) Did you check the ring gap before installation? .004" per inch of cylinder bore.
The internals all appeared to be in decent shape. Bearings were all in great shape (the STD denoting standard size was still visible on the surface) You can't use STD bearings in an align bored case.I would not reuse bearings anyway.   Might be a slight misunderstanding here. I haven't started assembling anything yet, just dissassembling the old trashed motor and taking inventory. I was merely noting that I thought that since the bearings were labeled std that the crank may have not been reground measurement will tell. I'll definitely be using all new bearings and doing this build right (but keeping budgetary constraints in mindShould I still have the crank yes and cam polished never heard of that being done ? I'm new to building anything internal combustion, but I thought micropolishing journals on cranks and cams was something done often??

The Case has been line bored (only once). It is currently set up for 90.5s and the 94s I have don't look thick enough to entertain the idea of turning them down to fit the case opening. You can have the 94s turned down to fit the 90.5 as you know.Do you do this type of work Gary?
The engine will be used in a daily driven single cab that pretty much needs to be bullet proof and will rarely see anything over 4000 rpms.

My questions are

1776 or 1914?
(budgetary issues here would be buying 90.5 p&c and possibly have too much carb vs having the case and heads opened up for 94s)
 Carb size should not be an issue. Your choice, mine would be a 1776. Are all of the parts listed previously suitable for an engine build of this sort?

Is headwork needed? Who does head work? Anyone in the area recommended? I would like to do a mild amount to maybe increase the flow of the heads and give me a bit more horse power.
Not absolutely necessary but a fluff and buff would certainly help things out. Do you do that sort of work as well Gary? Would bigger than stock valves be a good idea in a 1776 and/or a 1914?

I'm on a fairly tight budget, but I'm prepared to spend a few bucks on the things that I need most.

Thanks volks!
-Brian
 
 

Brian
68 scab
Maintenance chief for
78 Deluxe Westfalia
73 Standard Beetle

"If you're going to throw someone under the bus, let it be me. I love buses!"

hot63vw

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Re: 1st Engine build!
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2008, 01:05:43 PM »
If the heads are original fuel injection heads I think the valves are smaller than carburetor heads like 30 x 33MM. Might make a good low end torque motor. You has said you would like to increase the flow. Doug

PF

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Re: 1st Engine build!
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2008, 06:25:59 PM »
Post the part number up on the heads.  The 33 x 30 mm heads where on 75 - 76.  Should start with an 043.  The H head had the Cylinder Head Temperature sensor the R head didn't